Information about the front B-17:

  1. Aircraft No: 42-102592 N8-G
  2. Tail Letter: N8
  3. Fuselage ID: N8-G
  4. Group/Squadron: 398th, 600th
  5. Official Name of Aircraft: Unknown
  6. Date of Photograph: probably 1 August 1944
  7. Photo Location: probably Villaroche, France
  8. Crew at time of Photograph: Pilot thought to be Clark
  9. Final Disposition of A/C: assigned to 398th 28th April 1944, with group until sent to 2SAD for salvage 29th Jan 1945

Information about the middle B-17:

  1. Aircraft No: 42-102506
  2. Tail Letter: K8
  3. Fuselage ID: K8-L
  4. Group/Squadron: 398th, 602nd
  5. Official Name of Aircraft: Contrary Mary
  6. Date of Photograph: probably 1 August 1944
  7. Photo Location: probably Villaroche, France
  8. Crew at time of Photograph: Pilot thought to be Boehme
  9. Final Disposition of A/C: assigned to 398th 5th May 1944, with the group until 25th February 1944

Information about the back B-17:

  1. Aircraft No: 42-107103
  2. Tail Letter: A
  3. Fuselage ID: K8-A
  4. Group/Squadron: 398th, 602nd
  5. Official Name of Aircraft: Marie Notre Dame
  6. Date of Photograph: probably 1 August 1944
  7. Photo Location: probably Villaroche, France
  8. Crew at time of Photograph: Pilot thought to be Evans
  9. Final Disposition of A/C: assigned to 398th 5th May 1944, MIA 10 September 1944

Interpretive Comment:

It was recently thought that the middle B-17 was flown by the Pestka Crew. Although Al Petska indicated that the day was 9 Feb 1945, data cannot match the other planes to that date. Identification now of the back aircraft as 42-107103 bounds the date of the photo as before 10 September 1944. Also based on the following note, it appears that the photo had to be taken before November 1944. An analysis of formation charts by Mike Dingus indicates that the date is probably 1 August 1944 though this does conflict with the note from Chris Carroll as to the pilot.

Source Information:

  1. Photo Source: Richard Shaw's 398th Photo Collection. Richard's photo obtained from former Group Commander, Colonel Ensign in the early 1980s. However, it should be noted that there are a number of sources of this photograph.
  2. Photo Reference: 42-102506_592_107103_1944
  3. Photographer: possibly Lt. Radnedge's Co-Pilot
  4. Information compiled by the 398th Web team with special thanks to Chris Carroll, Mike Dingus, Albert Petska, George Rodgers and Richard Shaw.
  5. If you would like to add information about this photograph, please contact our Aircraft Photo Coordinator. Please include the title.
  6. Interpretive Comment: It was recently thought that the middle B-17 was flown by the Pestka Crew. Although Al Petska indicated that the day was 9 Feb 1945, data cannot match the other planes to that date. Identification now of the back aircraft as 42-107103 bounds the date of the photo as before 10 September 1944. Also based on the following note, it appears that the photo had to be taken before November 1944. An analysis of formation charts by Mike Dingus indicates that the date is probably 1 August 1944 though this does conflict with the note below.

 

15 Jan 2006 Note from Chris Carroll

In my collection I have a simlar photo, it appears to be the same photo listed on you site.  The collection consists of Lyle Doerr's uniform, photos, letters and documents that had belonged to Lyle's sister Silvia Law.

I have enclosed a copy of the photo from the Doerr binder, not a good copy, the original is excellent.  I will try to get some better shots and send.

The photo is accompanied by a letter from Lt. William B. Radnedge of the 602nd to Mrs. Joe Doerr, Lyle's Mother.

An excerpt of Radnedge's letter dated July 26, 1945. "Mrs Doerr I am sending you two pictures that I have and you are welcome to keep them especially the one of his plane.......The other picture is taken of Lyle's plane over a target in Central Germany just as the bombs were being released.  My co-pilot took that picture while we were in very heavy flak but the photographer retouched that out of it because the censor would not pass the photo otherwise. The plane has a big K8 L on the side of it but I do not remember the name."

In my photo the center plane Doerr's tail number is 42-102506 L  which is the "Contrary Mary". The rear plane (right) is 42-107103 A, the "Marie Notre Dame"

The center plane and the rear plane (right) in your photo has the same numbers as mine.

If they are the same picture, mine being retouched, and if William Radnedge's Co-pilot took the picture, it had to be before November 1944, as that is when Radnedge returned to the states.

Chris Carroll
BA History NCWC
FMR Marine